The mortgage industry and home buying, is it a good time to buy? Effects of COVID-19 (Corona Virus)

Lisa Richart-Hernandez and George Hernandez interview Jim Duffy of Atlantic Coast Mortgage a mortgage broker that's been in the industry for over 18 years. Jim is located in the Charleston, SC area and covers Berkeley, Dorchester and Charleston, SC counties. His company provides all types of mortgage services. Jim and Lisa talk about what the COVID-19 (Corona Virus) has done to effect the mortgage industry and what homeowners should look out for in the coming months.

Click here to get the FHA Mortgage Assistance COVIE-19 info.

Check out Jim's Blog he wrote on FHA specifically: http://financeonthefrontline.com/unintended-consequences/

Jim Duffy
Loan Officer

C: 843-735-0865
O: 843-535-8417
jduffy@acmllc.com


Lisa Richart-Hernandez- View Properties Real Estate

Transcript

Copy Transcript Copied

Lisa Richart-Hernandez and George Hernandez interview Jim Duffy of Atlantic Coast Mortgage a mortgage broker that's been in the industry for over 18 years. Jim is located in the Charleston, SC area and covers Berkeley, Dorchester, and Charleston, SC counties. His company provides all types of mortgage services. Jim and Lisa talk about what the COVID-19 (Corona Virus) has done to affect the mortgage industry and what homeowners should look out for in the coming months.

Welcome to our view podcast where we talk about life, travel and real estate join George and Lisa Hernandez each week as they share insights and parenting tips about their life as a blended family with four teens their crazy travel and adventures, and get Lisa's pro input about real estate as she juggles it all while still managing her top-producing real estate brokerage View Properties.

Lisa: Hi it's Lisa Richart-Hernandez 

George: and George Hernandez

Lisa: And we have a great interview today we're testing out all of our new equipment super excited we did an interview with one of my favorite mortgage people Jim Duffy and he is with Atlantic coast mortgage and he's going to talk about uh what's going on with the rates and what's going on with FHA loans and so we got a bunch of good information from him we're excited to share it with you today and George was here to mediate.

George: I'm here to keep them from getting too technical I'm here to dumb it down [Laughter]

Lisa: oh you don't give yourself enough credit baby you understand the mortgage industry more than just

George: no I do but it's like any business if uh me being an ex-police officer if I start sitting with my cop buddies and we start getting at it all sudden everybody's looking like what codes are you guys talking about what are you talking about what does that mean so I understand and I just want to I want to be here for the average joe.

Lisa: average joe okay well that'll be your new nickname average joe Nah 

George: well tiger king's already taken 

Lisa: all right well let's get into it and go into uh listening to what uh Jim Duffy had to tell us all about the mortgage industry and how covet 19 is affecting all of us. So hey Jim just tell us uh our listeners a little bit about your history in the mortgage business and uh and just a little bit about yourself so they can get to know you better.

 Jim: sure I'll be happy to, so I've been in the mortgage business for a long time now um since well for about 18 years since 2001 late 2001 I got into the business and it was a great business until it wasn't in 2007-8 but we made it through. And you know I say that because we're going into you know I think we're in a recession at his point and so it's something that we've we've been through before and we know how to get through.

So it's kind of a fun fun time but I have a big team with atlantic coast mortgage we're doing a really high volume right now we've got just looked at my numbers we did 25 million in originations in the last 60 days or at least in loan applications right not all of them qualified just yet but here's a lot of loan applications coming in so that's great.

Lisa: Wow that's amazing! Is that a normal thing for you or is that okay?

Jim:  It's not at all h part of it's the marketing part of it's its realtor partners like yourself Lisa who are just awesome. And out there working and doing what you're what you do and helping people in the homes and um a lot of it it's just well I have to tell a secret on myself right now. Some of its just past client marketing I haven't really reached out to my past clients ever until about six or eight months ago. I've been doing that regularly, and that's a game-changer as well as I probably should have done in the last 18 years.

Lisa: you know that's awesome it's funny because um that's one of the things that I've been telling my agents and myself also. Now is such a great time to reach out to all of our past clients and I've had so many people call me uh that I haven't heard from and I would say if one of the benefits I guess if there's are any silver linings to all of this quarantining, is just the opportunity just people are calling and saying hey how are you doing and reconnecting on the phone and kind of slowing things down so it's been really good and I'm yeah I'm sure that was a lot of perfect time for you it was kind of before this started but uh good to definitely stay in touch.

Jim: It has but it has stepped up now I think there is a want and a need for a personal connection you know people are worried don't worry about their jobs they're worried about the economy they're worried about their health. So there's a real need for a personal connection and I think that's important for all of us we all need it.

Lisa: So Jim, I think probably one of the biggest questions and that our listeners will have and it's a question that I get all the time is what's going on with mortgage rates right now?

Jim: That's a question even I had at least to tell you the truth because I'm like wait a minute so here's a very quick back story mortgage rates are determined by the bond market specifically, mortgage-backed securities and they have gotten they're at the best rate ever so mortgage rates should be at their best rates ever at their lowest rates ever right? But they're not and there are a few reasons for that is because things got so good so quickly. Lenders couldn't keep up and what happened was servicers had a lot of runoff.

So servicers make money on servicing a loan right receiving our payments and processing our mortgage payments collectively after about three years of having that loan on the books well so many were falling off the books before three years they were losing money and rates were going so low so quickly but also lenders on the origination side we're having to we're having margin calls by the broker-dealers right we lend money but it's not really our money we have like a one big credit card if you will and we lend we get the money we sell the loans to Fannie Mae Africa whoever and we get the money back and we lend it to the next person right and that big credit card is basically provided by a broker-dealer and they were having margin calls. So we were losing money from servicers we're having margin calls.

And the third thing is um so so lenders were losing tens of millions of dollars collectively by these margin calls and the third thing is on government loans FHA loans specifically bond investors were walking at it saying if there if a lot of people are losing their jobs and a lot and the default rates are highest on FHA loans in any other loan and VA is very similar then we don't really want to buy those right now because it's too risky right? 

And so that's what they were saying and so the trifecta meant rates couldn't go lower because mortgage lenders couldn't afford parades to go lower because they were losing so much money. Which is weird when Rachel lowe you think we'd be making money but um as a collective we're all losing money so that's where I think that's working itself out now is the good news and I think we will see all 10 of those like rates you know 30 years fixed rate with no points around 3 percent maybe even high 2 something like that. But it won't be for a cup I don't know exactly when 10 days to a couple of weeks at best but I think we will get there.

Lisa: Well that's good news George I have George's my barometer of people that are not in the industry when I start talking about things that make absolutely no sense to him did that make sense to you George?

George: yes I'm gonna throw in the red flag anytime that you guys start okay because it happens I'm kind of here to listen in and then when you guys get a little too technical I'm gonna throw in the flag and say hey can you guys low down and kind of explain it to us the common folks that are not in the industry.

Lisa: I have a tendency to do that to George and he'll be like well probably the reason people don't understand you is that I don't understand a word you just said don't worry and I have no can you believe that shouldn't they understand if George was like.

Jim: no this one is technical I'll give you that I think the better way to put it then would be just to say because rates got so low so quickly lenders were actually losing money and therefore uh had to put the brakes on a little bit and now we're catching up to it.

Lisa: yeah even myself and I've been you know a real estate agent for about 15 years also and I went through the crash uh last time too so I'm you know prepared for that

as much as I can be because I do you know foreclosures and bank owned homes and short sales were my specialties back then.

So even for me I mean I've always understood how servicers uh you know always at the closing table you'll say to people this is who are you know closing your loan but in three months you're going to get new pay new stubs that are going to be paid to somebody else and that person is a servicer and that's I think where um like maybe people that aren't in the industry understand what a servicer is and how they make their money.

And how the whole industry works overall because you know they'll say oh we've dropped the interest rates one point and people think oh gosh you know last week they were at 3.6 now that means I can get it at 2.6 and that isn't really exactly how it works and so trying to understand that for people that aren't in the industry is uh even probably more challenging than it was for even myself to read through it all and completely understand how mortgages are packaged and sold yeah in the future.

Jim: yeah and this one does I agree this one goes way into the weeds as well as far as the inner workings of the  mortgage business which most people never see or care about but it is affecting things now 

Lisa: yeah yes exactly it's funny because that's also um back in 2008 when the market crashed all of a sudden everybody started reading their mortgages the actual papers that you sign at closing like they're like I never read this before they can actually re-key your house and come and take it the bank's still lost

Jim: right exactly that's part of it, yeah but very very fair everyone became a mortgage expert, and then we forgot because the market got so good for so long yeah we just kind of went well yeah that's just normal mortgage.

Lisa: right so 

Jim: That's the thing with this forbearance thing too you know everyone's saying well the government will allow people affected by this coronavirus to stop making the payments for three or six months or however long it is.

Lisa: Right 

Jim: and I thought there are a couple of people who are ecstatic about it like no mortgage Payment but it's you got to read the fine print on that one yeah it can really get you in trouble quickly.

Lisa: yeah you know let me actually address hat a little bit because I'll tell you about my experience with that in 2008 and how so many people got into trouble that they couldn't get out of and the number one thing that I recommend to people is to reach out to your lender this is not an automated thing.

They don't just go oh you don't have to pay for three months I'm gonna just not send in my payment you have to let them know every your credit cards your car payments whatever as a matter of fact um I bank with Bank of America and bb&t and bank of America they have an actual I noticed on my app on my phone yesterday as a matter of fact that they said if you need help with your car payments your mortgage payments or whatever you know they have forms and stuff for you to fill out and get that taken care of.

Jim: Oh that's interesting I didn't realize I had that yeah available.

Lisa: yeah so if you don't do those things that do not mean that you're going to just be forgiven for your mortgages. And you know a lot of people in 2008 the problem that they don't understand is so you go 90 days without paying your mortgage and you do nothing about it well now you're in default. And once you're in default they're not going to take a partial payment from you. 

So what had happened is people said well I want to do a short sale and they say I need to be 90 days late on my mortgage to do it so they would not pay their mortgage for three months and then they'd spend that money and then say the short sale didn't work out which might have taken another six to eight months to negotiate and now they're that far behind and if they change their mind or their situation change. They couldn't go back and make those they couldn't say well here you know I know I owe you ten thousand here's five now and I'll pay you five in two months they weren't they won't they would send them they won't take it unless you send in the whole entire payment so and the other thing that people didn't realize which you probably see this also. 

When they did the loan modifications and they did those all they're doing is adding it to the back of the loan. So you know they basically sometimes yeah they were charging you all the fees and everything and putting it on the back. So I'm starting to see even before the market um before this coronavirus um kind of crashed our market uh before that I started even seeing people that had been through the loan modifications that were back again in default. 

And I was like yeah when you re you know when you did the loan modification you basically increased what your you know value of what you're what you owed on the house was from.

Jim: Yeah and you're underwater even further it's kind of like I like it a little bit too you know when you go to a furniture store and they say well it's 90 days same as cash we'll just finance it no payments for 90 days and that's wonderful and it's great until 90 days is over and then you owe it all plus interest right and so it's very similar with the forbearance most of the forbearance agreements you know say you don't have to make your payment for three months but on month four you owe immediately four months worth of payments. And so if you can't do that uh I would yeah I'd caution people to sort of poor bears if they can I mean some people are the only option

Lisa: and I honestly don't know because I haven't attempted to try to um do any of these programs. I'd really be interested to talk to some people that have gone through the paperwork for it just to see what the fine print is about that but definitely, I guess the biggest advice that I could give anybody um in the situation where they can't make one of those payments is to reach out to the lender and I told everyone you know to write down who you talk to when you talk to them and keep a record of everything that you have and if you have the money to pay your mortgage then pay it you know.

Jim: Oh that's so true uh quick story about that I've got a good friend and past client who is one of the most recent uh hurricanes he came through he had some damage to the house and lenders were saying well you can not make a mortgage payment for three months because of the hurricane damage and he took advantage he said oh great that's a help because I need to fix the house and it was wonderful until he called and said okay three months is over let me start making payments well they documented it as he was 90 days late now in default. It took a lot of phone calls a lot of time on the phone to correct that and then they did a loan modification and tacked out all the fees for the default onto the back of the loan just like you were saying so yeah it's not 

Lisa: yeah I'm hoping in this situation they're not gonna do that. But that's why it's so important to make sure that you're you know documented on whatever program whatever your financial institution is is offering yeah.

George: Can I ask a quick question I'm gonna ask both of you do you both see foresee a serious problem in a couple of months because me the average joe when I hear loan forgiveness it's loan forgiveness so there's gonna be so many people out there that just think like you both just said oh I don't have to pay my loan for three months.

And then all sudden we're gonna have hundreds and thousands of people who are going to be screwed in their loans because like you just said three months from now they're gonna say awesome now you owe us four months of payments I guarantee you a lot of these people not accounting for that not don't understand so are there gonna be a ton of loans that are going to be under default?

Jim: I believe so I think there will be because and the sad part is really in 2007 to me during the housing crisis we could do 100 financings we could cash out the 97 we could a lot of people didn't have a lot of equity in their house that's not the case now so if people get in trouble now and really have struggled to catch up and start making the payments again they're potentially losing a lot of equity almost everyone has equity in their house right now and that's net worth that's wealth and it's potentially going to be lost for a lot of people and that's the sad part on this one and why are we cautioning people not to do the forbearance if they can handle that if they can make the payments then please do.

Lisa: Yeah yeah well like I said I think each and I think it might be different for each individual lender so just I think they really just need to like reach out to whoever is giving them whatever loan. So tell me about a lot of people so here's what I've been hearing and it makes everyone nervous when we hear this especially real estate agents ell I mean I've heard rumors like you can't get a loan anymore there's not going to be any more FHA loans for a while you've got to have a better credit score so tell us about FHA loans for people that don't know are when the well I guess you could probably explain that better than me Jim why don't you yeah I'd give up or talk about when we say FHA.

Jim: Yeah FHA is a government loan right it's considered a first-time buyer loan it's not restricted to first-time buyers it's a very simple loan and in fact, you started this whole process right hud was started in 1932 and started this whole thing of you don't just go to your bank and get a loan like you know in the uh it's a wonderful life right the bailey savings and loan thing they started the whole thing of collective collectively securitizing loans and making it easier for people to buy a home with a much lower down payment but what happened is in 2007 you remember the subprime lenders started following just almost daily we heard about this lender's out of business that lunges out

of business and everything went to the right FHA kind of became the new subprime because it's lower credit scores lower down payment you can get the down payment

from anywhere.

Lisa: that's what I was going to say explain what subprime is for layman's terms I can see George's eyes glazing over right now what's up brian.

Jim: sorry George um yeah so subprime was a wave of lending that came up about in probably the mid you know 2002 or so. It really took hold and grew and it was non-government-backed lending so it wasn't these loans that weren't sold and collateralized by Fannie Mae Freddie Mac or January they were just collateralized by individual companies and sold on the bond market right? 

And so really they made up their own rules and some of those rules were just way too lenient like you don't need a job we don't need to verify income we don't need to verify assets et cetera so it became way too loose and therefore a lot of people bought homes that really probably shouldn't have they didn't quite qualify and um as soon as bond investors really started realizing this stuff is not high-grade loans they just started dumping them and then companies started folding

But that was separate companies it wasn't the systemic lending that we have now the FHA loans that are really the backbone of first-time buyers I think so. that was the subprime thing. And again the problem now is FHA has become kind of the new subprime and so that has the highest default rates that have the lowest cost to entry etc.

Lisa: That's because people are only putting say for example three and a half percent down on an FHA loan so the risk for the lender is more because there's not a lot of wiggle room in there as  compared to a conventional loan where if someone put 20 percent down and say the market depreciates 10 percent the person who's holding the loan is still in a good position whereas if the market goes down 3 percent which is possible now the lenders if the person defaults on the loan are in an upside-down position does that make

Jim: that's exactly right and you know conventional loans really only require a 3% down but here's a big difference they also with three percent down conventional you need a higher credit score and so those with higher credit scores typically aren't going to default they typically might have more savings than someone with you know someone with a 740 credit score is less likely to default specifically than someone with a 580 credit score who got into an FHA loan and that's the problem that we're seeing right now if investors don't want to buy that lower-tier credit loan packages.

Lisa: So can people still get FHA loans right now?

Jim: uh kind of but there's no pricing right now that doesn't carry with discount points to get that rate even with I probably found out yesterday with an oh a VA loan yesterday was a 760 credit score and it cost one and three-quarter points to get any rate at all and that will fix itself I think what has to happen there for it to fix well one of two things will happen with FHA I guess that's the best way to put it.

FHA will either go away and it will collapse and we will have no more FHA loans ever which I don't think is very likely I think what's more likely is the government has to bail out

loan services and guarantee payments to bond investors. And if that happens fat will come back and it'll be not just like it as I don't think personally I don't think we'll ever go to 580 credit again I think it'll be like 620 ish minimum credit scores when it does come back.

Lisa: I gotcha so there again kind of goes back to make sure that your credit score is going to be more important than ever in the upcoming years and I don't think people always necessarily  realize that um especially when they go through a crisis seems to be like the last thing on their mind but 

Jim: sure I agree

Lisa: I used to always tell people you know if you go through this short sale the difference is the difference between three years on your credit or seven years on your credit and 

Jim: that's a great way to put it and it's true

Lisa: And three years ago you'd never thought you were gonna be in the position that you're in now and seven years ago you certainly did not so imagine how quickly three years goes by as compared to seven and to just be proactive about everything that you do as far as keeping your credit score as good as possible and reaching out to those lenders at this time to make sure that you just don't get a ding on your credit for no reason.

Jim: Yeah, I would completely agree. And it's highly likely that we'll see some you know this whole forbearance thing. You don't have to make three months payments if you were affected by coronavirus I think that's going to affect some people's credit in more than they think it well going into it right you think it's a free three months but I suspect it's gonna affect people's credit because if it's an uh I just forgot the term restructuring alone um yeah yeah then oftentimes that shows up on the credit report and does affect the credit negatively.

Lisa: That'll be interesting to see how that all plays out and what I found in the past was most of the people that got in that position were again the ones that kind of buried their head in the sand instead of trying to get out ahead of it so.

Jim: Yeah instead of asking the questions and talking it through sure 

Lisa: Yeah yeah so I've got um I've got like a million-dollar property under contract right now and I'm really nervous because I heard that you know jumbo loans and portfolio loans are also difficult to get how can so just so people know a jumbo loan is what anything over $450?

Jim: Yeah actually it's gone up it's $510,400. so anything under $510,400 is conforming anything above that is jumbo.

Lisa: Okay so a jumbo loan generally has a little bit higher interest rates more qualifications right?

Jim: It does yeah and it's getting tighter as well because those loans again are not collateralized by Fannie Mae Freddie mac the government into these they're collateralized by hedge funds and you and I are investing in our 401k stuff right that's who Glenda has just those loans and so yeah it's getting tighter I've had a few investors pull out and not do jumbo loans any more others are still offering them and they're pretty great but they've restricted a little bit you know it's always 20% that used to be 10% damage.

The jumbo loan you know twenty percent they're just getting a little bit more restrictive nature as they probably should have in this credit environment you know that's understandable. But portfolio loans have gone away. So like those those those loans where they don't quite fit the box you know, it's a self-employed buyer they write off a lot on their taxes so we do 12 months bank statements and all the deposits the equal income. And we don't get tax returns and we do the loan form that there's a place for those loans but there's not a place now because they all shut their doors so there are no portfolio loans at the moment.

Lisa: I'm very happy that I refinanced when I did I'm mad yes yes all those self-employed people you know uh it's difficult for us anytime to get a loan but uh I'm glad I got locked in before that yeah yeah that's right well anything else, uh you want to touch on any information you want to share with our listeners that is uh critical tell us how we can get in touch with you.

Jim: oh sure! Absolutely, so it's Atlantic coast mortgage it's just atlanticcoastmortgage.com/jimduffy or just google my name or my blog is financeonthefrontline.com yeah I'll send you a link to that.

Lisa: yep and we'll put all that in our show notes for our listeners 

Jim: Perfect! 

Lisa: So you spelled Jim's last name Jim Duffy, d-u-f-f-y and again it's Atlanticcoastmortgage.com 

Jim: Yes

Lisa: so uh 

Jim: So here's a thought for you and I'd love I would actually love to get your take on this because I've had a lot of people who are in the market to buy right now

express that they're a little bit nervous and wondering should I buy should I not buy what's going on and my take is is this if you're going to be in the home for three to five years.

yeah, I would absolutely buy right now and the reason is rates are at all-time lows or they're so close to all-time lows that it's great to take advantage. But i think what we'll see is the economy will worsen a little bit more we'll probably see home prices dip right and so everyone's like well why shouldn't I wait till they until they go lower

because as soon as we see that we'll also see rates go up. And if you can lock in something at or around three percent on the 30th fixed rate my goodness three years from now when home prices are really going gangbusters you're going to be very happy that you locked in that rate made it through the dip and then see equities start to grow very rapidly again.

Lisa: yeah absolutely that's great um that's great advice. Jim as a matter of fact I was looking at I get an email from our weekly stats guy and 54 homes went under contract yesterday. So people are still buying and selling houses out there. We did hear from the local uh board of realtors uh by the way national association realtors and the local MLS has done a great job in getting real estate agent services as what do they call it required or necessary business things so we're still having closings we're still doing title searches thankfully essential business, yeah so that's great sitar our local charleston trying an association of realtors they reduced our fees by 50 which was we got that bill we got that. 

It was really great! We got that bill last week and I was like oh crap when I opened it up thinking there's another bill I'm gonna have to pay and was happy to find that yeah for the whole office though I mean you know it was uh save saved me you know 50 is a lot that's a lot I'm better than nothing.

Jim: I'm happy to see him stepping up and helping because you guys are in the front lines. I mean I'm my whole company practically is working from home right now and we're making it work and we're getting loans done and closed on time and all that. but we're working from home you're not and so you're hats off to you and all your colleagues because you're out there really making the economy work because it's one of the few things food and beverage I feel for them but there's not much we can do other than you know get some takeout so often but you are in a position where you can really make the economy work and keep moving forward and hats off to you for all that you do.

Lisa: Well thank you, Jim, I appreciate that. They are making it a little bit more difficult for us to show homes but you know view properties when I started out this business we started with a whole virtual showing assistant thing and everything technologically forward-thinking and uh thank goodness I already had a lot of visual tours already online and stuff like that for my listing so people can safely go online and get a very good uh idea of whether or not they like the house without actually going out of their home.

Jim: I was it was funny when this first thing when this first started the quarantine and all that stuff. I thought of you almost immediately I was like you were ahead of your time but it's perfect timing right now because that's what everyone wants to do a virtual tour.

Lisa: yeah exactly so for the agents that don't have visual tours on their listings, we will have like a buyer's agent go out and take a personalized video tour of the home for our buyers and upload it to them on a private youtube link so they can really get a feel for the floor plan and the size of closets and things that we don't see every day on um on listings you know as a listing agent our job is to make the house look as good as possible so we may not show the picture of uh you know the neighbor's junkyard next door or things like that you know so when you get to the house and you're like oh no this wasn't what I wanted so we wanted to take as much risk out of that as possible right now so uh sending one.

Jim: That's great yeah that's the way to do it.

Lisa: We just send one agent out with their hand sanitizers and wipes and they go take their video and they send it back to you while you take a break from your Netflix tiger king or whatever crazy thing.

Jim: you're kidding exactly

Lisa: oh my gosh! what's up with that tiger king have you watched that yet?

Jim: Let the tiger king be rest for a while and take a look at this home that you could be buying right now.

Lisa: exactly exactly so please please we'd love to go show some more properties. It's also you know it's been kind of interesting to be quarantined and uh you know my agents have really like embraced it. Keeley one of my buyer's agents I love she does Keeley's quarantips every morning on Facebook.

Jim: I've been watching that yeah yeah she does a great job with that

Lisa: I look forward to hearing what she has to say each day so you know they're doing all the continuing ad because see in June a bunch of like 50% of all the real estate agents they have this kind of like on an alternating schedule of when our licenses expire. So June of 2020 a bunch of people's licenses were expired. So I mean when would we ever have such a great break to get all of our continuing education done at the last minute.

Jim: That's true thinking maybe I'll get some more I can't really go out.

Lisa: That's right I was like yeah it's a good time to get some more letters behind my name let me see what kind of uh what kind of accreditations I can get.

Jim: Can I add exactly. And you guys have I know you and George travel so much and go to so many shows you're probably very happy that you took advantage while you could and had some experiences and I'm sure people will be doing the same once this all opens up yeah you know we'll be out of our house. 

Lisa: This has definitely been a and I've told my children this such a good reminder of why not to procrastinate about things. Why not put things off to the last minute and you know like for example my uh my 15-year-old daughter has her driver's permit and she could have gotten her to take her test so she could be driving on her own right now. Which she would love to be able to go randomly to her you know dad's in my house and friends' house or whatever during this time. And she kept putting it off well guess what she can't she will be lucky if she gets it by the time she's 16 now in May. Because there's no driver's test everything you know so just little things like that and you know saying 

Jim: hey that's like my oldest daughter is you know she is a ballet dancer and she wants to dance professionally for a company and she was kind of pimping and hauling a little bit about going to a couple of these auditions for companies but she did. And now it's like well all the auditions quit so I'm so glad I didn't she has an offer. So she but she probably wouldn't have had had she did you say procrastinated and been like well maybe I'll wait for the next one or whatever.

Lisa: yeah yeah yep

Jim: I totally agree

Lisa: yep so good learning lesson there that's great to hear that she's got some auditions. I hope she's not in new york.

Jim: no she didn't want to go to new york she didn't really audition there no Oklahoma city ballet really. Apparently, there is a ballet in Oklahoma City and that's where she's headed so.

Lisa: well i think that's where the tiger king is from.

Jim:Oklahoma watch out [Laughter] 

George: Oh he's in prison so we don't have to worry about him.

Lisa: I don't have to worry about him specifically. I've just been cracking up about all the crazy stuff that you know people come up with during this time when there's nothing to do. I thought people had bad memes when there was stuff to do. 

Jim: It's good yeah it's bad it's kind of fun watching the memes go around.

Lisa: yeah, that's right. Well, Jim I really appreciate your time this morning and uh your expertise. And again if people want to give you a call email you reach out to you tell us again what the best way to reach you is

Jim: yeah atlanticcoastmortgage.com search Jim Duffy I'm right on there. And uh that's probably the easiest or the blog financeonthefrontline.com and it's a pleasure chatting about the market. So it's an odd market right now but really the odd markets are the time to jump in you know it's what's warmed up the buffett says when there's fear in the streets that's the time to jump in. And it's kind of that way a little bit so if you have a means and capacity and a job to secure. Man, I would encourage people to look to buy now if they're ever thinking about it and give you a call.

Lisa: Awesome that's such great advice, Jim. I really appreciate it thank you so much for your uh input today and uh we'll talk to you soon!

Jim: okay thanks Lisa see you soon bye-bye.

Thanks for joining us today on RView podcast. If you would like to hear more don't forget to hit that subscribe and follow button and share this with your family and friends you can send a direct message just visit www.rviewpodcast.com or follow us on Instagram at RView podcast that's the letter R View podcast.